Also in the manga version is what Yasu asks Will to do different? Like I'm thinking that maybe in the manga version she is asking Will to completely destroy her mystery instead of leaving it vague but I can't really read the words on those scans hehehe...

no, it’s all pretty much the same, which is par for the course for ep7. although even in the original vn clair didn’t specifically ask will to do it vaguely; they have a sort of sad exchange even there where will implies he wants to do the minimal amount of damage to her possible and clair is like nope destroy my mystery totally lolololol and he’s like welp.

I think that as if the guns weren't in the gold room the murders wouldn't have happened. I think tensions would have raised exponentially and there would have been a shit ton of verbal abuse and an all around ugly scene but no murder as long as the guns weren't there. I think if murder was attempted with bare hands it would have been stopped by the other adults.

i think part of the problem is that even if the family didn’t literally all get bombed to death on that night, there’s no easy solution to a lot of what was going on with them. they all still need a lot of money right now or else face ruin. krauss and natsuhi are still criminals and the entire family knows it. and yasu is still probably dead one way or another, whether or not she succeeded in taking everyone else with her. so good luck picking up the pieces from there

I really wish I could defend Ryukishi's decision to reveal and show us everything but I really don't know like I understand everything about how it should be respected but I also wanna honor Ryukishi's decision to in a way truly kill his character but idk I'm so mixed about this all I mean I like it all finally being shown as it finally gets rid of my curiosity but idk. Also with the GN scene is Will actually saying the truths or are they just being shown with his vague descriptions?

having seen the whole chapter now, i think it’s pretty clear he’s not saying them or anything. in terms of what’s actually said and done, it’s the same as in the vn. you could read them as either will’s thoughts or just a general translation of what his answers mean for the benefit of the audience

I kind of wonder what would have happen if Natsuhi had gotten the chance to question Shannon about man from 19 years ago. It certainly wouldn't have gone as smoothly as she expected.

i doubt it would have gone much of anywhere, seeing as shannon is sort of designed to be yasu’s brick wall against a lot of things

shield symbolism etc etc etc

wait, did the manga confirm yasu's biological sex am I reading this right or???

well, the japanese fandom is still arguing about it, at least

my reaction to the implications biological sex-wise as far as the manga goes is pretty much “this sure is shit we already knew” tbh

If Kinzo hadn't died the moment he saw Yasu, do you think he could've helped Yasu cope? If only one of those people near Yasu back then could've helped her. Genji certainly didn't, and it doesn't appear that Kumasawa understood either. It's tragic.

i don’t think kinzo as he lived in 1986 was a person very capable of “helping” anyone. i can believe that kinzo, in lion’s fragment, was a very good grandfather to him - but by 1986? nope, too far gone, way too toxic in regards to his losses and beatrice. 

Okay suppose Kinzo couldn't just go "nope bye" then what? You one time mention that him dying prevented Yasu from gaining any emotional closure.

Probably Yasu would get the chance to actually tell him she thinks he’s a horrible man, and then Kinzo would comically immediately spontaneously combust or something, and it would basically come down to the same end, I imagine! I tend to see Kinzo as a real coward in that sense, which is part of what makes him interesting to me? I think his pain and sorrow over what he did was real in a lot of ways, but at the same time, I think he also definitely purposefully ducked any possibility of facing Yasu’s real and honest reaction to what he had done so that he could die under the illusion that “Beatrice” had forgive him.

Have you seen that link on animesuki with more information on umineko manga? What do you think about it? It feels like they confirmed that Yasu was just a girl who couldn't have kids because of the cliff fall... or no?

Hmm, I didn’t really get that impression when I was looking at it? My reaction was more along the lines of “yep, more stuff we already knew” - asides from some small details like Yasu having polydactyly, which isn’t very important to me.

Actually, yumetabibito and I were sort of surprised because we’d speculated and interpreted that the weirdness of the timing of Kanon’s existence, and Yasu running around as him, would indicate Yasu was already suffering some form of gender dysphoria even before having the truth bombshelled upon her - but it was sort of a speculation we did with - certain reservations, I guess, because there’s so little concrete with what was going on with Kanon (which is why, understandably, a lot of people were figuring things like he didn’t really exist for three years/he was only in Yasu’s head/whatever.) So we were a bit “oh wow” when it turns out that that’s exactly what was going on and exactly what Kanon’s existence indicated.

I still can't determine whether the TIP "Game Master Battler" is a stealth parody of Rule 34 or Ryukishi's evil otaku side taking over his body in a moment of weakness… it's a mystery… =O

little of column a, little of column b, i would suspect

Another question - why does Yasu tell Battler in Ep4 that "because of your sin, people die"? I think tragedy would've occurred whether or not Battler's sin came into the equation, after all. Of course, without having met Battler, the ritual-style mystery methods of the murder wouldn't have happened, but people would've died anyway. Or was she just exaggerating Battler's sin as a cause-and-effect? Maybe Battler was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I tend to view is as Battler being the straw that broke the camel’s back, between those two? Yasu was at a place where she was already full of despair and uncertainty, but she was coming to something like an emotional resolution for herself - her decision to tie herself to George, at least - and then Battler’s return comes back and turns her into a scrambled mess all over again. Beatrice did say in EP4 that Battler’s sin wasn’t something direct or anything, but implied it was more like one piece of the puzzle that led to this end, IIRC?

Isn't Beatrice's body the same as Yasu's body in the meta world? But some scenes in the manga suggest otherwise. Sorry but I just get confused over stupid stuff.

Nope, Beatrice in the meta world is what she looks like, being a conceptual being and all that! So she does not have Yasu’s body, and that ties in a lot to how Yasu views Beatrice as Good End.

Wait, isn't she the main character already?

yes let’s go with that

Do you like Historia?

I’d say she’s pretty much the best character in Shingeki at this point, although Shingeki isn’t really a series where I’d say I have “favorites” - more along the lines of “characters I’m interested in” and “characters I’m not,” lol.

My best theory about why the EP7 manga is taking that path with Golden Nocturne is because while the VN is mostly text, manga has to be far more visual with everything (One of the reasons the anime flopped so hard). And i don't think they can do a good scene with just Will swordposing for 1-2 chapters.

Hmm, that doesn’t really quite work for me, because the visual element isn’t really anything I have an issue with with the manga’s approach from what we’ve seen. Like I said, I was expecting more explicit illustrations of what was going on in the twilights, etc. Huge blobs of text that literally spell out “KANON FAKED HIS DEATH LOL” dont’ really seem like much of a “more emphasis on visuals” angle to me…

also idk i’m totally up for will (and clair!!!) swordposing for 1-2 chapters but maybe i’m a little weird as far as that goes

I wonder if it's possible to have a world where Yasu is caught before she can start/complete the ceremony which doesn't turn ugly?

Well, EP7 seems to put forth that things would have gone to complete shit even without Yasu’s existence, let alone her plans/ceremony, as a factor to begin with, so outlook doesn’t look so good!

It’s sort of fun/comforting to imagine a fragment like that, but I think you’d have to put a lot of very hard work into it to make it even start to feel “legitimate.” Most of the siblings were already onboard an incoming trainwreck in terms of their family relationships, conspiracies, and economic situations even before Yasu threw her hat into the ring, so to speak, after all.